Mocha Hitfilm

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  • @Triem23

    It's h.264 and 4:2:0, plus I did some bad organization on set, what led to unnecessary spill. In one scene I solved the same problem with some light wrap.

    In other instances the actors have short hair, what really made everything easier.

  • @Triem23 Missing a video link in your last message. 

  • edited February 2

    Can someone pleas point me to an informative tutorial on masking moving people in Mocha?. i have tried masking out me walking past a locked down camera, but the something went wrong and my shape ends up going crazy and stretches across the screen. I've already seen the one about the lightsaber handle. 

    thanks.

  • edited February 2

    @LiamMcM1: Take a look at the mocha tutorials on their page. You have to do roto. And most important: Mocha is looking for shapes, keep that in mind when tracking. It does not look for "objects"

    Example: If you draw a spline around a persons back while he is walking away from the camera mocha is tracking his back, not him. So when he turns, the back turns, so the plane turns, so the spline turns. Maybe the mistake is that you expect the plane and spline to stay with the person?

    I ran to it in the past as maybe many people starting with plane trackers. In general a person is hard to track. There is no "I mark him and the software does all the rest". You also should never track a person in one  piece with mocha - make shapes for arms, legs etc.

    Depending on what I want to get I do that in hitfilm itself with the point tracker and some moving masks or I take mocha. Inside mocha I look for something I can track. Next I draw splines around head, body etc. and link them to that track. I do not track that splines themselves when there are lot of turns! Last I have to adjust the splines. But adjusting them at - let's say - 10 frames - is faster than drawing a mask throughout all the scene. So it is faster -  but not magic :)

    My last project was a "thank you" video to my soccer team. I filmed them in a hall playing before Christmas. In the short video I decided to make that scene more "Christmas" and put Christmas hat on their heads moving with them. It was fun an simple: I tracked their heads inside hitfilm with the point tracker, assigned one hat to each point, made the scale and rotation manually and after 2 hours it was finished.

    Hope that descriptions helps a bit.

  • @mariokluser (and any peepers), I want to correct myself.  I had a brief exchange with the CEO of Imagineers Systems. I learned that chroma subsampling has nothing to do with the removal module. Removal warps pixels between frames based on illumination modeling (brightness), and has little to do with color.  However, chroma subsampling does have something to do with tracking using Auto-Channel (whether that track is intended for a removal or not).  Here are his words on that:

    "In auto-channel mode, the tracker assesses each colour channel to see which has the greatest contrast and uses that. This is helpful in situations where the scene contains objects that have distinct colours with similar luminance. Here, because a specific colour channel is being used, chroma subsampling will always have the effect of reducing image resolution and could make the track more difficult.

    The reason chroma subsampling causes problems for keyers is that keying generates a matte based on the colour channels. If chroma subsampling has been used, objects which are visible in the luminance channel (e.g. a 1px wide hair) will be indistinct in any one colour channel, meaning the key doesn’t include them, or if it does, they are spread over a larger area than they should. Provided you track in luminance mode, this won’t be a problem for Mocha."

  • Anthony_VFX_CGI 

    While I totally get the tracking stuff in Mocha, my main problem is the total basic of getting it into my footage in Hitfilm. For now I always end up throwing everything away and do everything manually with the point trackers, masks and Photoshop. This is not actually what I bought Mocha Pro for. 

    With the normal plug-in I managed in the past to export the data into a composite, load this into Hitfilm and than copy and paste the masks it created into the composite where I actually needed it. This wasn't the official way to do it either, but there is just no tutorial I found that shows these important last steps.

  • @MarioKluser: Do I understand you correctly: You got a got track and a remove and you don't know how to get that into Hitfilm?

    If so: In Hitfilm you can set the "render source" at the effect (Mocha Pro) to the Remove Module. To speed things up I suggest to proxy that comp with the footage and mocha effect and make a new comp of it to speed things up.

     

  • Juda1 
    Yes, when I for example follow a Moch Pro remove tutorial, I do everything they do, but decide to render in Mocha. During the render I only see the shapes dancing around (following the path they should) and the footage in the viewer disappears. All I see then is the shapes. Then I close Mocha and have a look in the properties. When I turn on the matte, it doesn't makes much sense and I don't have the slightest clue what to do next.
    This is usual the moment where I hit de delete key and do everything manually with tracker, masks and Photoshop.

  • edited February 13

    @MarioKluser Got it. With the plugin I use the render to control the result if any doubt about the tracking or so. From what I understand you want to do a remove. So when you are finished with tracking and took a look at the render in mocha all you need to do is:

    Close mocha, back in Hitfilm select the mocha effect from which you launched mocha and expand module renders. Under Module choose the desired render output (Remove in this case) and tick the checkbox "Render". Now you get the mocha output in the viewer window.

    You don't need to "render" the video in mocha by viewing it inside the render module to get a result. I only do that to see if I get the results I want as a check. Also mocha caches that render so back in hitfilm the render output is faster. 

    Anyway I proxy those output and include that comp in a main comp as I wrote before - just to speed things up.

    I hope I could help with that. If still something is unclear maybe you can provide a link to your footage and I can give it a try to make a small sample project file of it tomorrow.

  • Juda1 

    Thank you so much for your input. This makes total sense. I will give this a try with some smaller video's. 

    I just finished the edit of a 115 minute feature where not a ton of effects where used. For a future project I want to make use of more of them. I'm for example interested in legs with blades, like they did with Ninja's legs in the music video for 'Banana Brain'.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXlZfc1TrD0

     

  • edited February 27

    Hi Juda1,

    I just tried the following:

    1. I have footage were I placed in post a poster on a wall behind me.

    2. When I lean into it, my head is covered by the poster. Therefore I roto scoped my head in order to cut the poster out. The matte looks fine, but my head is still covered by the poster. What to do now? 

    Alas, I can't place the images here.

    Regards,

    Mario

     

  • @MarioKluser Not sure if you've seen this, but it's a really short snippet showing how they did the leg blade effect. Looks interesting, but definitely tricky.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0w7gt0PUpY

     

  • @jsbarrett

    That's cool. Isn't it.

    Alas, at this point in time I only get frustrated with even the most simple tasks, as described a couple of hours ago. 

    I just sent an e-mail to the representative from Boris with a cry for help.

  • @MarioKluser I assume you got the footage below the poster in the layer stack. Now all you need to apply the mask. To do that save your shape inside mocha as Hitfilm Composite. Import that into Hitfilm. It will have a plane inside with a mask applied to it. You can copy the mask and paste it to your poster footage. Since you don't want the poster to be visible inside the mask but to be cut out inside the mask click the option inverted at the mask.

    That's it.

  • @Juda1

    I finally got it working. I duplicated the footage and put the poster in between both footage layers (actually the same way I would do it with regular masking, lol). Then I applied to the footage layer on top of the stack the Mocha Pro plug-in and masked only the stuff that I want to have visible on top of the poster.
    The only thing that I had to do then was to hit save in Mocha Pro and close the plug-in. Back in Hitfilm Pro it applied the mask. :-)
    I have to say that the tracking is really great.

  • That way it also works and I was thinking about it at first also. But then I thought: You can copy the mask :)

    Here you find another example. Mocha is great but it takes some times to really get into it.

     

  • I wish though Hitfilm had the plugin like in after effects where you can instantly convert mocha shape to a mask without having to save the mocha shape into a comp shot.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @Andersen01498 in Hitfilm 2017 and later it does and you can. 

  • @Triem23@Andersen01498: Wait - you do not need to save that to a comp? I tried "copy to clipboard" but it doesn't work. How do you get the data from mocha to Hitfilm without saving it to a comp?

  • @Juda1
    You only need to hit save in Mocha and the close it. The mask will then be applied to the layer you threw the Moch Pro 'effect' on.

    Oh, I tried to copy the mask to the layer with the poster (after exporting as comp and importing it), but as that layer is a 3D layer, the mask didn't do what it was intended to.

  • Mocha pro is a great tool 

  • hey guys i just downloaded hitfilm pro the trial version but i cannot find mocha at all, i typed moc under the effect search but nothing shows up, please advice. thanks

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @michaelafshin you cannot use Mocha or Boris with the Hitfilm Pro demo. The license agreement with Boris/Imagineer requires purchase for activation. 

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