Lost Creek Productions Thread- [Deflectors Test]



  • @Stargazer54

    Oh man I keep forgetting that you use Lightwave. Your exports should be working right out of the box from that program. I've never seen it fail in other peoples videos so that is very weird. Tilt your head to the side in confusion type of weird.

    Yeah you're right and that should not be happening when you assign materials properly. Years ago, Simon Jones sent me some links on how to read materials in different 3d formats, basically got me very interested in coding and that is how I know through personal experience, trial and error, which the better formats are and how to write them by hand.

    Lw, obj, and fbx all have pros and cons and one format can stand in, when one of the other formats fails, but if I had the means, I'd use Lw first, failing that i'd use obj, failing that I'd use fbx.

    Lightwave is first although I've never actually used it, and I've only seen other people use it. Watching other peoples videos, I paid attention to the Animation groups and Materials dialogue, Lightwave has always just done it correctly and nice. If I had access to Lightwave for a day, I'd spend all day exporting and then reading the exported file to see how it is done. :) Yeah I've got to give it to Lightwave, simply because I've never heard anyone say that they've had problems when importing to Hitfilm. For obj and fbx, we sometimes have to jump through hoops when using Blender.

     Obj is second because it is easy to write by hand and I can get it to export all of the correct information.

    Fbx has a couple of issues with smoothing information and textures so it comes in third. 

  • Stargazer54Stargazer54 Moderator
    edited December 2019

    Almost there:


    Models in Lightwave.  Lighting & animation in HF.

    Edit: Extended the loop.  I hate the way YouTube takes forever to sync up the resolution.

  • Oh my god!!! There you go, awesome! :)

  • Holy crap, Frank.  You're quick on the draw.  (Thanks much sir!)

  • No problem, my jaw dropped and I forgot to ask, what are the dimensions of your material override Nacelle animation texture. It looks really good. :) 

  •  @spydurhank ; Not sure what you mean by "dimensions".  Hopefully what follows covers the question.

    I started out with a comp that has the model elements in it along with the lighting. I have another comp that has the rotating blades and lights.  I put that comp in as a bottom layer in the model comp and turn off visibility.

    Then for the surface of the bussards (which have a UV map), I select the funky icon in the object properties to set up Override Materials.  Then in Controls for the object layer, select Models, object name, Override Materials, surface name,  Diffuse Map Source -Use Layer, Diffuse Map Layer, and select the layer that has the rotating blades comp as the source.

    Hopefully that answers your question.

    What I have been struggling to do is create a comp that that has the model and all the lights in one composite shot that I can export (as a composite shot) and be able to read that into a new project and have a pre-built model file ready to animate.

    What I found out today is that if the comp you want to export has an embedded comp shot within it (e.g. the comp of the spinning bussard blades and colors) you will get a warning that you cannot export a comp that has another comp  embedded in it.  The work around is to remove the embedded comp, then export both and read them back in on the next project. 

  • Whoops, wrong way to ask a question. 

    If your diffuse texture map is for example 4096 x 4096, how large in X and Y is the Nacelle animation?

    Just wondering how the material override works for you with larger textures. I just re-installed my 32gig pro duo so I want to play around a bit with the material override.

    Last time I played around with the material override was with a 4gig gtx 970 and,.. it choked, it just couldn't handle what I wanted to do. :)

  • @Stargazer54 ; Super nice!  I have yet to play with the override feature... you make it look tempting though.

  • Looking good, Lynn. Then again, I would have been more than happy with your prior nacelle test. 

    "The work around is to remove the embedded comp, then export both and read them back in on the next project." 

    Wrong. You're about to facepalm, hard. 😉

    The workaround is to save both Comps as a PROJECT FILE. 

     I've discussed this before, so I literally 😮 jaw-dropped when I read the above. Especially as I've talked about things like saving out a project file with multiple ships scaled to each other (like if using models from different creators that were built at different scales) for easy import before! Hell I'm 99% certain this information is in Essential Hitfilm 02! (Import/Export) 

    Using Import Composite Shot on a project brings up a dialog to select and import any/all Comps from the project. By default all are selected. Let's say you deselect everything but Composite "Enterprise," forgetting about embedded comp "Nacelles..." Hitfilm will automatically import Nacelles because it's embedded in Enterprise.

    @tddavis Override Materials is fun and powerful. I just caveat it's very resources-intensive. Certainly, you want to Pre-Render any comp shot being used as a texture.

    I'll drop in something totally unfinished here... I started this before leaving the US and, as I'm out of the country, I won't be able to get back to this until Feb. 


    This is a very sloppy "Storyboard" version (so I apologize for "Quick 3D Fire Explosion") of the first part of the shot. Otherwise, for those who have been following the thread about converting astronomical star map data into something Hitfilm can use, there's a big paragraph there about how this scene is set up at a true 1:1 scale (including the reference point for the Sun light flare, if not the actual light source...), as well as how the shot will continue.

    The "power up" texture on my "HitDeath Star" and the surface texture on the moon use "Override Materials." So will Earth... 


  • @spydurhank ; Sorry I misunderstood the question, Frank.  The spinning bussard texture is 500 x 500.  I saw no reason to go much larger since it's blurry anyway.

  • Thanks @Stargazer54 , It looks better than you think, even at 500 x 500. :)

  • @Triem23 ; Yep, you're right Mike.  Facepalm!   Just hadn't clued in that you could read in a project as a composite shot.    Pretty much what i needed there.

    Your death star is mighty tasty!  Looking forward to seeing the final.

    As for the bussard tests -In the previous test I had to use an ambient light to make the Override Materials show up so that it wasn't "shaded" but looked emissive.  In the tests I just let the ambient light wash over the rest of the model.  But in the final set up I had to resort using two spot lights (with the Reach turned down) in front of the nacelles to accomplish the same thing.  So it looks different.

    I'm sure there's a trick I'm missing with that, as well.  I tried putting the texture on the Specular Map and cranking up Spec but it doesn't seem to work as expected.  The bussards still look like a shaded ball.

    I even tried putting the bussards in their own comp shot with an ambient light and a grade layer on top to bake the look.  But bringing in the bussard comp in as 3D unrolled they still look like shaded balls unless I click Promote Lights - which brings the ambient light in and washes out everything.   Spent a lot of time on what should have been a "simple" thing.  So I must be missing something.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited December 2019

    Lynn, take a look at this Simon Jones tutorial for the video version of what I'm about to discuss. 


    Two layers: Model "Enterprise Main" has all "normal" textures, EXCEPT the Nacelles. Here, you have a choice... Strip out the Diffuse map and set Diffuse/Spec/Ambient to black, OR set the Diffuse color to the orange of the nacelles when the warp core is powered down.

    Model layer 2, "Enterprise Nacelles" You'll be doing this to a duplicate model (CTRL+D the current model and rename in Media Bin) All materials have their texture maps stripped and colors set to black, EXCEPT the Nacelles. Set the Nacelles up as usual. This model goes on the layer above your main model. Obviously it's parented to the main model. Here's Simon's trick - the Nacelles model layer's properties are set so Illumination is off! Its Blend Mode is set to ADD. And it's Nacelles are the Override texture.


    So, that's how the models in this were set up.


    The basic Hull texture versions are lit as normal, while both ships have different "overlay models" for lights, opacity-keyframed running lights (the center boom running light on the Klingon is actually a little sphere model brought in and added to the relevant layer) nacelles and impulse engines. You can see me showing off and having all the D7's layers flicker at different rates as she starts to lose power just before the big boom.

    Just note HF saves model geometry in a project file, and, since I'm using multiple model instances with different textures, Hitfilm is saving multiple copies of the geometry. 

    Except, with Override Materials, I could now set up one Geometry and use Override Materials to set up all the "light pass" overlays, although I think that would take a performance hit... Hmmmm... 

  • @Triem23 said, "I could now set up one Geometry and use Override Materials to set up all the "light pass..." overlays"

    That would run really heavy I am sure.

  •  "The basic Hull texture versions are lit as normal, while both ships have different "overlay models" for lights,..."

    Seeing the illumination map feature of VC Orb, and demoed in the Film Sensei Orb TUT, made me wish for something like that for models. Ship window and/or running lights. Then again, most models probably do not have such maps. So you can't win for losing.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @NormanPCN I'd love for Hitfilm to add in Illumination Transparency and Emission maps. Even if most free models don't have them, those are pretty easy to make. Using a Constitution-Class as an example: Threshold filter on the Diffuse map to keep all the lit windows and make everything else black. Emission Map in five seconds! 

  • Extra texture maps? That is more like a game engine huh? That could be pretty cool. :)

    Extra material slots for emission and transparency maps would for sure make it a lot simpler to create running lights and lit rooms and windows on spaceships so + 1 to that. :)


    Just Frank 

  • Definitely would be nice to have more options for texture maps.  My bussard lighting problem would be solved (I think) by being able to put the bussard texture on Emissive Color using the Override Materials function.  

    @Triem23 thanks for the reminder about Simon's flying saucer tutorial but I solved the problem by just turning Ambient to black on all other surfaces.  

    But I have to say that surfaces in HF are somewhat counter-intuitive (at least for me coming from LW).  What LW calls "color map" translates to the Diffuse Map in HF.   LW's Bump Map shows up in HF as the Normal Map.  The Diffuse, Luminosity maps in LW have no equivalent in HF.  If you write out a LW object with a bump map to an OBJ then the bump map is removed and becomes the Normal Map in the OBJ.   Very confusing to say the least.

    I can't find what equates to Ambient Color in LW or the OBJ.  That seems to be a HF construct.  I assume the whole shading model is probably based on some sort of limitation of Open CL and shading for game engines.

    In the Enterprise model I had to split up the saucer, secondary hull, pylon and engines into separate OBJ files to preserve surface colors.   HF was removing and combining surfaces if I read it in as a LW object.  So if it has to be OBJ's then i can only depend on "Color Map" in LW as the OBJ's Diffuse Map in HF.   Loads of fun.   For a space scene I think I can safely ignore Ambient and turn it off.

    Here is another test of Override Materials on the bussards with the Ambient Material turned to black for everything but the bussards and an Ambient Light in the scene.


  • edited January 2

    @Stargazer54 That's great!

  • Oh yeah, that is awesome! @Stargazer54 :)

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    Damn, it's pretty! 

  • @Stargazer54 Be still my heart.  Looks fabulous!

  •  Very cool!

  •  Another test ... playing with Specular maps



  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    Yup. Wow! 

  • Pretty good. :)

  • Stargazer54  Very nice...really underscores how much better shows from that era would be with today's tech, and that it can all be done at home not Hollywood!

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @tddavis the Blu-Ray remasters are the very rare remasters that work. They didn't overdo it, and matched the style of the original correctly.

  • @Triem23 Good to know.  I have avoided watching them because I was worried they had been Lucas'd to death.  I'll look into that now.

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