Any free .mov (DNxHD codec) splitter?

I read on the forums that DNxHD is a fantastic codec for editing. So, I encoded a video shot on my iphone (.mov format, 5 GB) using this codec. The resulting file is 25 GB. I want to split it into multiple small files so that it plays well in Hitfilm. But even after googling a lot, I could not find a free mov splitter which does not put watermark. Does anyone of you know of any such software? Or, can you suggest an alternative workflow?

Comments

  • What software are you using to do the conversion to DNxHD? You might consider using that to do the splitting. It'll be a manual process, but it'll get the job done.  Mark in and out points in your video for the first segment, export that chunk, mark some new points, export, etc.  I use MPEG Streamclip for transcoding, and its batch feature is really handy.  For the tutorials I make, I split my screen capture into multiple segments using this process, adding each chunk to the batch queue. Once all chunks are marked and added, I kick off the batch process and walk away for a while.  Chances are you know spots in the video that you don't want to keep, so you can use those as the break points between splits.

  • DNxHD is fine but if you are on Windows you are much better off using Cineform or Prores. DNxHD would require you to install Quicktime and then the DNx codecs. Quicktime just does not perform as well as the natively supported Cineform and/or Prores in Hitfilm.

    If you just want to split a big file into small(er) pieces, you can use ffmpeg  to easily split a single file into files on of some duration. Here is an example command line from a file splitter script in the ZIP file from this thread.

    ffmpeg -i %1 -map 0 -c copy -f segment -segment_time 600 -reset_timestamps 1 "%~dpn1_%%02d.mp4"

    Segment time is in seconds so 600 is 10 minutes, 60 is one minute. One can just change the extension to MOV from MP4 if your file is or needs to be MOV.

    ffmpeg is free but technical command line based so it is not for everyone.

  • Thanks jsbarrett and NormanPCN for your replies. I use MPEG Streamclip  for conversion (as suggested on this forum), and so, I will most likely go with jsbarrett's solution.

    @NormanPCN, do I need to pay for Cineform? Also, several people advise against ProRes on Windows because there are several workarounds involved to make it work (or so I have heard, and I could be wrong). Also, can you suggest a software to perform the conversion to Cineform? 

    As far as ffmpeg is concerned, I am very much OK with the command line if it can get the job done. I will try both MPEG streamclip and ffmpeg, and will most likely develop a preference for one over the other.

  • @Memokraft Cineform is free. Cineform is actually now open source. As stated Cineform is native to Hitfilm (also native to Adobe products and Resolve). Prores is also native to Hitfilm. By native I mean you do not need to install anything to use the codec.

    You should not have any problem using Prores in Hitfilm on Windows if Prores is your preferred choice. Cineform has been a very high performing option in Hitfilm. The best actually. I've not tested Prores since Hitfilm got native Prores support. It may now be similar tot Cineform in performance, but who knows.

    One difference. On Windows, Hitfilm can render/export Cineform but it cannot export Prores. Of course you can render Cineform for intermediates if you have the need, even if using Prores for your source media.

    Cineform transcoding. Unfortunately ffmpeg does not have a Cineform encoder yet. Decode only. VirtualDub is a decent choice for Cineform transcoding. It now has a native implementation of Cineform. See this thread.

    https://fxhome.com/forum/discussion/42015/how-to-use-virtualdub-filtermod-to-fix-vfr-issues-and-convert-to-cineform

    If you really want to use ffmpeg and want to transcode to DNxHD/HR or Prores you can use ffmpeg to do that directly. I have example scripts in this thread.

    https://fxhome.com/forum/discussion/42349/transcoding-for-better-performance-and-easier-editing

    This thread is kinda the master transcode thread. It links to the other threads I mentioned here and in my previous post.

    If you want to split a file at the same time as transcode you can insert the split  command into your ffmpeg script.

     

  •  @NormanPCN, I tried encoding to Cineform using the exact instructions from the above link, and my 5 GB input file resulted in a 120 GB output file! Is this normal? This is a 24 times increase. And Hitfilm cannot open it. What use is an excellent codec if the file cannot be edited?

    But I might be missing something.

    In your experience, does the output file balloon so much? And any tips on preventing that from happening?

  • @Memokraft

    "I tried encoding to Cineform using the exact instructions from the above link, and my 5 GB input file resulted in a 120 GB output file! Is this normal?"

    Maybe. We don't know what you did, your input or your output. You say you followed the exact instructions, but why should I believe that? It sounds like you may have output uncompressed video.

    "What use is an excellent codec if the file cannot be edited?"

    Well , if you got into a racecar and tried to drive it at speed in a race you are going to wreck. The wreck ain't the fault of the car. It's a driver issue.

    "In your experience, does the output file balloon so much?"

    When converting from common media (20-40Mbps) to typical intermediate standard output one typically sees 3-5x larger files (~145Mbps). Now if your source media is 4Mbps, and all else being equal, then you see MUCH larger increase in file size. The intermediate (Cineform, DNxHD/HR, Prores)  will still be roughly the same size but the source is so much smaller. Therefore a larger relative difference. Typically with lower quality source material you normally use a lower quality setting on the intermediate since the normal and higher settings are just a waste with lower quality source.

    The intermediates have multiple quality settings and Cineform is no different here.

    ----

    Why don't we start with facts. Copy/paste into a post here, a full text report from the free MediaInfo utility of your 120GB result file. That will tell us exactly what you did in VirtualDub.

    Cineform has many settings. A good place to start is by using the 10-bit 422 format at Medium or High quality setting.

  • You're giving some pretty AWFUL advice, and I'm confused by your aggressive tone...  "Why don't we with facts."  Lol... What?

    1.  OP:  Try GrassValley HQ[X].  It's freely available for Windows.  If HitFilm doesn't support Native Windows CODECs, then that is something else to consider ;-)

    2.  Using 422 10-Bit Intermediates from iPhone H.264/HEVC Footage is a massive waste of storage and bandwidth.  iPhone Video is 8-Bit and there is barely any perceptible quality loss going from that to ProRes Proxy.  Why would anyone waste that amount of storage and bandwidth going to 10-Bit Cineform @ 422 Quality?  What a waste, and what awful advice.

    3.  Cineform is almost always larger than DNxHD, because DNxHD is an 8-Bit CODEC designed specifically to give high quality at lower bandwidths.  This was important because of Avid's ecosystem, which stretches beyond scenarios where everything is on local storage...

    Additionally, you can always use DNxHD LB, and you likely not notice the difference between that and the video coming directly off of the iPhone.   The files will be considerably smaller than Cineform.  Ballooning 25GB of DNxHD to 100+ GB of Cineform is completely within the realm of possibility, because I notice similar disparities in file sizes transcoding in DaVinci Resolve and Adobe Media Encoder (which I just checked, to make sure my memory wasn't fooling me).  The Cineform is routinely 3-4x the size of the DNxHD.

    -----

    A much better intermediate to use, which rides the fence between both of them better; while offering quality/performance on par with Cineform at lower bandwidth/smaller file sizes and better generational quality loss (worth noting, since the iPhone video is poo quality coming directly off the phone before transcoding :-P ) is GrassValley's HQ/HQX Intermediate CODEC.  Freely Available.  Simple installer that has nothing but the CODEC (no bloatware).  Works in everything from File Explorer, to Windows Media Player, to every other media app/editor on your PC that uses the native CODECs on your system (Sound Forge for editing and remuxing, for example).

    DNxHD still uses 32-Bit QuickTime on Windows, which comes with its own set of problem. 

     

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @NormanPCN @iNate

    Norman your prior post is a bit grumpy compared to your usual tone, but, y'know it happens to us all, including me at times (I don't think I violate any confidentiality agreements to say I got an email from @OliThompson last month gently reminding me to always play nice - this is where I'll note that Forum mods aren't FXHOME staff... We're user volunteers). That said, I'll disagree you're giving bad advice... read on.

    iNate "DNxHD still uses 32-Bit QuickTime on Windows, which comes with its own set of problem. "

    This is why we generally recommend Cineform. Prores Proxy is a pretty good choice, but, again, it's hard to find Window software that deals with it, and, like DNxHD it's still 32-bit Quicktime on Windows, so you have all the issues with DNxHD MOV. Again, why we'll usually recommend Cineform on Windows.

    File sizes for Cineform vary greatly depending on the quality setting used. For myself I've found that Cineform Medium is basically visually imperceptable compression compared to the original file with the ridiculous 400MBps 4K files from my Canon 5D MKiv, and that the file size is almost identical with the DNxHD I tried. IMHO Cineform Low is probably good enough for any 1080 work (especially from a phone) and Cineform Medium is probably good enough for anything 4k.

    I'd agree that 10-bit is overkill, but Norman might be using a bit of overkill to prevent file degradation.

    @Memokraft a quick note on video compression. Most video compression formats are LOSSY. This means they throw away a lot of data and detail to fit as much video as possible in a small space, but, the bottom line is the more you compress video the more detail you lose and, once lost, that detail can never be recovered. The h.264/h.265 compression used on an iPhone is a DELIVERY codec - this means it's designed to be the final video uploaded, streamed or placed on a DVD/Blu-ray disc and is NOT intended for editing.

    Some record times for the iPhone 7 can be found HERE.

    We'll use 4k/30p as our example. 350MB/m (megaBYTES per minute) 350/60=5.83MB/s 5.83*8=46.6Mb/s (megaBITS/second). MegaBITS is what we want to look at as most video codecs are set to megabits/second. Uncompressed 4k 30p video is 6 GIGABITS/sec. That iPhone video is compressed at a ratio of about 129:1.

    Now, h.264 is only about half as efficient as h.265, so, to keep the same "quality of compression" when transcoding from h.265 to h.264 you would want the file size to be at LEAST twice as large - about 90-100Mb/s. But, as far as file sizes go, that's still about 65:1 compression. If you compress a file to where it's 0.008% of it's original size then recompress the file to 0.016% of it's original size you're looking at a lot of possible degradation.

    Let's just mention that video must be decompressed before an NLE can edit it. The more you compress a file the harder your CPU works to decode it and the more sluggish your NLE response. Norman can explain more if he wants.

    And this is where Cineform comes in - Cineform, Pro Res and DNxHD are all examples of "EDITING" codecs. These codecs generate larger files with much lower compression rates, both to preserve detail and improve editing speed. Yes, you should absolutely expect a Cineform, ProRes or DNxHD file to be 6-10 times larger than your h.264/h.265 original phone footage.  Which reminds me. I'd go back and transcode the ORIGINAL phone files to Cineform while splitting instead of creating a DNxHD then splitting that to Cineform. Why recompress the same footage twice?

    Finally, follow Norman's advice, generate a MediaInfo report and post it here. You might have gotten a step wrong, which would be an easy fix. You might have just done something like Filmscan, which is too large.

    Finally, what are your system specs? CPU, GPU, OS RAM and Storage? I've used Cineform of all quality settings in Hitfilm and never had an issue, but I've got a pretty beefy laptop (by 2015 standards). If you're running something like an i3 processor with no discrete GPU, 4GB of RAM and a hard drive, then you're running at bare minimum specs for Hitfilm and might experience issues with larger files and complex effects.

     

  • @iNate

    "1.  OP:  Try GrassValley HQ[X].  It's freely available for Windows.  If HitFilm doesn't support Native Windows CODECs, then that is something else to consider ;-)"

    If you want to use Grassy Valley then go ahead. You will have to go through Video for Windows which, in my experience, does not perform as well as other options. Codec independent.

    "2.  Using 422 10-Bit Intermediates from iPhone H.264/HEVC Footage is a massive waste of storage and bandwidth.  iPhone Video is 8-Bit and there is barely any perceptible quality loss going from that to ProRes Proxy.  Why would anyone waste that amount of storage and bandwidth going to 10-Bit Cineform @ 422 Quality?  What a waste, and what awful advice."

    Which is why most here recommend the Medium variant of Cineform. Our camera output quality just does not need the higher bitrates or standard DNXHD, yes standard, or Standard Prores. Cineform High being most equal to DNxHD and Prores standard.

    As for the Proxy/low bandwidth settings of Prores and DNx, yes they can work. The target bitrates of these modes is very close to typical camera source media. The typical camera source media being LongGOP AVC. AVC compresses much better than DNx/Prores and the intermediates are I-frame only. One normally wants more bitrate to compensate for similar quality and less transcode loss. This similar to an MPEG-2 vs AVC comparison.  MPEG-2 needs much more bitrate for similar PSNR/SSIM result.

    These low bitrate modes are not really designed for source replacement. They are really for edit proxies where the final render uses the source, or maybe one of the higher/normal bitrate options of the respective codec spec. That does not mean they cannot work in that way but blanket recommendation. Not so sure.

    That said, the differences may not be very visible is normal use. Static pixel peeping and frame differencing with an exposure multiplier will show those diffs, and way more dramatically than the standard bitrates.

    Since Cineform has a Medium spec with a lower bitrate than the typical standard bitrates of the likes of DNx/Prores it is a good goto and safe to recommend and it saves file size. Prores also has such a slightly lower bitrate spec which would be a good goto recommendation. Prores LT. If I were to recommend Prores I would say LT or standard. Similar to what I say with Cineform. Medium or High.

    "3.  Cineform is almost always larger than DNxHD, because DNxHD is an 8-Bit CODEC designed specifically to give high quality at lower bandwidths.  This was important because of Avid's ecosystem, which stretches beyond scenarios where everything is on local storage..."

    8-bit, or 10-bit it does not matter. The only thing that matters for result file size is bitrate. A 10-bit codec does not by definition have a higher bitrate than an 8-bit codec. The bitrate is whatever the designer wants it to be.

    I find that Cineform High is about the same bitrate as DNxHD/HR standard and Prores standard. This being about 140-150Mbps for 1080p30 material. Target bitrate varies by target frame size and rate. Prores 422 is a 10-bit codec like Cineform. Cineform RGB and Prores 444 use higher sample sizes (12-bit).

    Prores is native in Hitfilm on Windows (import only) so you don't need Quicktime.

    One thing about file size and using VirtualDub. Vdub often defaults to 32-bit float audio for many source formats (even 16-bit source). That will increase the file size. Small in relation to video option choices but worth mentioning.

    Here are examples of conversions. MediaInfo report.

    Source media.

    General
    Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\test Projects\play media\GoPro.MP4
    Format : MPEG-4
    Format profile : JVT
    Codec ID : avc1 (avc1/isom)
    File size : 235 MiB
    Duration : 55 s 659 ms
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 35.4 Mb/s
    Encoded date : UTC 2014-04-23 10:37:05
    Tagged date : UTC 2014-04-23 10:37:05
    AMBA :

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : AVC
    Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile : High@L4.1
    Format settings : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
    Format settings, CABAC : Yes
    Format settings, RefFrames : 1 frame
    Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=8
    Codec ID : avc1
    Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 35.0 Mb/s
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.563
    Stream size : 233 MiB (99%)
    Title : GoPro AVC
    Language : English
    Encoded date : UTC 2014-04-23 10:37:05
    Tagged date : UTC 2014-04-23 10:37:05
    Color range : Full
    Color primaries : BT.709
    Transfer characteristics : BT.709
    Matrix coefficients : BT.709

    DNxHD 145 (aka standard)

    General
    Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\test Projects\play media\GoPro_dnx.mov
    Format : MPEG-4
    Commercial name : DNxHD 145
    Format profile : QuickTime
    Codec ID : qt 0000.02 (qt )
    File size : 975 MiB
    Duration : 55 s 659 ms
    Overall bit rate mode : Constant
    Overall bit rate : 147 Mb/s
    Writing application : Lavf58.12.100

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : VC-3
    Commercial name : DNxHD 145
    Format version : Version 1
    Format profile : HD@SQ
    Codec ID : AVdn
    Codec ID/Info : Avid DNxHD
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 145 Mb/s
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.339
    Stream size : 964 MiB (99%)
    Language : English

    DNxHR LB (low bandwidth, also called Proxy in DNxHD)

    General
    Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\test Projects\play media\GoPro_dnx.mov
    Format : MPEG-4
    Commercial name : DNxHR LB
    Format profile : QuickTime
    Codec ID : qt 0000.02 (qt )
    File size : 310 MiB
    Duration : 55 s 659 ms
    Overall bit rate mode : Constant
    Overall bit rate : 46.7 Mb/s
    Writing application : Lavf58.12.100

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : VC-3
    Commercial name : DNxHR LB
    Format version : Version 3
    Format profile : RI@LB
    Codec ID : AVdh
    Codec ID/Info : Avid DNxHR
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 45.2 Mb/s
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.727
    Stream size : 300 MiB (97%)
    Language : English

    Cineform 422 Medium

    General
    Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\test Projects\play media\GoPro_cfm_med.avi
    Format : AVI
    Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
    File size : 772 MiB
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Overall bit rate : 116 Mb/s
    Writing library : VirtualDub build 40539/release

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : CineForm
    Codec ID : CFHD
    Codec ID/Info : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Bit rate : 115 Mb/s
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.848
    Stream size : 762 MiB (99%)

    Cineform 422 High

    General
    Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\test Projects\play media\GoPro_cfm_high.avi
    Format : AVI
    Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
    File size : 927 MiB
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Overall bit rate : 140 Mb/s

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : CineForm
    Codec ID : CFHD
    Codec ID/Info : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Bit rate : 138 Mb/s
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.223
    Stream size : 917 MiB (99%)

    Prores standard

    General
    Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\test Projects\play media\GoPro_pres.mov
    Format : MPEG-4
    Format profile : QuickTime
    Codec ID : qt 0000.02 (qt )
    File size : 1.02 GiB
    Duration : 55 s 659 ms
    Overall bit rate mode : Constant
    Overall bit rate : 157 Mb/s
    Writing application : Lavf58.12.100

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : ProRes
    Format version : Version 0
    Format profile : 422
    Codec ID : apcn
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 156 Mb/s
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.504
    Stream size : 1.01 GiB (99%)
    Writing library : ap10
    Language : English
    Color primaries : BT.709
    Transfer characteristics : BT.709
    Matrix coefficients : BT.709

    Cineform 422 Filmscan 2

    General
    Complete name : D:\Renders\GoPro_cmf_filmscan2.avi
    Format : AVI
    Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
    File size : 1.77 GiB
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Overall bit rate : 274 Mb/s
    Writing library : VirtualDub2 build 41867/release

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : CineForm
    Codec ID : CFHD
    Codec ID/Info : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Bit rate : 272 Mb/s
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 4.378
    Stream size : 1.76 GiB (99%)

    Cineform RGB (12-bit) filmscan2

    General
    Complete name : D:\Renders\GoPro_cfm_rgb_filmscan2.avi
    Format : AVI
    Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
    Format profile : OpenDML
    File size : 3.87 GiB
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Overall bit rate : 597 Mb/s
    Writing library : VirtualDub2 build 41867/release

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : CineForm
    Codec ID : CFHD
    Codec ID/Info : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Bit rate : 595 Mb/s
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 9.574
    Stream size : 3.86 GiB (100%)

    ---

    UHD resolution

    (*this AVC file is an upscale of the above camera source media, using my fast decode AVC settings*)

    General
    Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\test Projects\play media\GoPro_uhd_fd.mp4
    Format : MPEG-4
    Format profile : Base Media
    Codec ID : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
    File size : 482 MiB
    Duration : 55 s 659 ms
    Overall bit rate : 72.6 Mb/s
    Writing application : Lavf57.56.100

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : AVC
    Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile : High@L5.1
    Format settings : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
    Format settings, CABAC : Yes
    Format settings, RefFrames : 3 frames
    Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=10
    Codec ID : avc1
    Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Bit rate : 72.5 Mb/s
    Width : 3 840 pixels
    Height : 2 160 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.291
    Stream size : 481 MiB (100%)
    Writing library : x264 core 148 r2721 72d53ab
    Language : English
    Color range : Full
    Color primaries : BT.709
    Transfer characteristics : BT.709
    Matrix coefficients : BT.709

    Cineform High UHD

    General
    Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\test Projects\play media\GoPro_uhd_cfm_high.avi
    Format : AVI
    Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
    Format profile : OpenDML
    File size : 2.42 GiB
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Overall bit rate : 373 Mb/s
    TCOD : 0
    TCDO : 556556000

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : CineForm
    Codec ID : CFHD
    Codec ID/Info : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Bit rate : 371 Mb/s
    Width : 3 840 pixels
    Height : 2 160 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.494
    Stream size : 2.41 GiB (100%)

    Cineform Medium UHD

    General
    Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\test Projects\play media\GoPro_uhd_cfm_med.avi
    Format : AVI
    Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
    Format profile : OpenDML
    File size : 2.11 GiB
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Overall bit rate : 326 Mb/s
    Writing library : VirtualDub2 build 41867/release

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : CineForm
    Codec ID : CFHD
    Codec ID/Info : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Bit rate : 325 Mb/s
    Width : 3 840 pixels
    Height : 2 160 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.306
    Stream size : 2.10 GiB (100%)

    DNxHR standard

    General
    Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\test Projects\play media\GoPro_uhd_fd_dnx.mov
    Format : MPEG-4
    Commercial name : DNxHR SQ
    Format profile : QuickTime
    Codec ID : qt 0000.02 (qt )
    File size : 3.75 GiB
    Duration : 55 s 659 ms
    Overall bit rate mode : Constant
    Overall bit rate : 579 Mb/s
    Writing application : Lavf58.12.100

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : VC-3
    Commercial name : DNxHR SQ
    Format version : Version 3
    Format profile : RI@SQ
    Codec ID : AVdh
    Codec ID/Info : Avid DNxHR
    Duration : 55 s 656 ms
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 577 Mb/s
    Width : 3 840 pixels
    Height : 2 160 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.323
    Stream size : 3.74 GiB (100%)
    Language : English

    ---

    BMCC Prores camera capture (Prores HQ)

    General
    Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\test Projects\camera samples\BMCC UHDp24 City Train Station.mov
    Format : MPEG-4
    Format profile : QuickTime
    Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
    File size : 1.25 GiB
    Duration : 15 s 68 ms
    Overall bit rate : 712 Mb/s
    Encoded date : UTC 2013-12-15 04:49:40
    Tagged date : UTC 2013-12-15 04:49:44
    Writing library : Apple QuickTime 7.7.3
    com.apple.quicktime.player.movie.audio.m : (Binary)

    Video
    ID : 2
    Format : ProRes
    Format version : Version 0
    Format profile : 422 HQ
    Codec ID : apch
    Duration : 15 s 68 ms
    Source duration : 15 s 125 ms
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 707 Mb/s
    Width : 3 840 pixels
    Height : 2 160 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 24.000 FPS
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.554
    Stream size : 1.24 GiB (99%)
    Source stream size : 1.25 GiB (100%)
    Writing library : bmd0
    Language : English
    Encoded date : UTC 2013-12-15 04:49:29
    Tagged date : UTC 2013-12-15 04:49:44
    Color primaries : BT.709
    Transfer characteristics : BT.709
    Matrix coefficients : BT.709
    matrix_coefficients_Original : BT.709

    DNxHR standard

    General
    Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\test Projects\camera samples\BMCC UHDp24 City Train Station_dnx.mov
    Format : MPEG-4
    Commercial name : DNxHR SQ
    Format profile : QuickTime
    Codec ID : qt 0000.02 (qt )
    File size : 834 MiB
    Duration : 15 s 84 ms
    Overall bit rate : 464 Mb/s
    Writing application : Lavf58.12.100

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : VC-3
    Commercial name : DNxHR SQ
    Format version : Version 3
    Format profile : RI@SQ
    Codec ID : AVdh
    Codec ID/Info : Avid DNxHR
    Duration : 15 s 84 ms
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 462 Mb/s
    Width : 3 840 pixels
    Height : 2 160 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 24.000 FPS
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.323
    Stream size : 831 MiB (100%)
    Language : English

    Cineform High

    General
    Complete name : D:\Renders\BMCC UHDp24 City Train Station_cfm_high.avi
    Format : AVI
    Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
    File size : 905 MiB
    Duration : 15 s 125 ms
    Overall bit rate : 502 Mb/s
    Writing library : VirtualDub2 build 41867/release

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : CineForm
    Codec ID : CFHD
    Codec ID/Info : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)
    Duration : 15 s 125 ms
    Bit rate : 500 Mb/s
    Width : 3 840 pixels
    Height : 2 160 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 24.000 FPS
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.513
    Stream size : 902 MiB (100%)

    Cineform Medium

    General
    Complete name : D:\Renders\BMCC UHDp24 City Train Station_cfm_med.avi
    Format : AVI
    Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
    File size : 667 MiB
    Duration : 15 s 125 ms
    Overall bit rate : 370 Mb/s
    Writing library : VirtualDub2 build 41867/release

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : CineForm
    Codec ID : CFHD
    Codec ID/Info : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)
    Duration : 15 s 125 ms
    Bit rate : 369 Mb/s
    Width : 3 840 pixels
    Height : 2 160 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 24.000 FPS
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.852
    Stream size : 665 MiB (100%)

     

  • edited July 2018

    @NormanPCN @iNate @Triem23

    Thanks to your extremely helpful responses and some of my own research, I think my problem is resolved. 

    Yes, I had used Filmscan 1 in CineForm quality settings, which is an overkill for my case. So, I experimented with High and Medium settings, and even though I cannot spot a quality difference between High and Medium, I am going with High for now. The size of the resulting file is 92 GB.

    As far as Hitfilm is concerned, it was completely my fault. I was not using the latest version, and Hitfilm just showed an import error, even when I tried to open a very small Cineform-encoded file (600 MB). So, I began with a blank slate and installed the latest version. And it can open the 92 GB file pretty effortlessly. It does show 'Conforming audio' for quite a long time when I open the file, and I cannot hear the audio until it is done, but I can see the video instantaneously. However, I do tutorial-style videos for youtube, and so, I record the audio separately later, and do not need the audio from the original file. So, this is not a problem for me at all, as I delete the audio anyway immediately after dragging the video to editor timeline.

    And, I must tell you, the Cineform video plays BUTTER SMOOTH!!

    Having edited the first 5 videos for my youtube channel in h.264, I can really feel the difference. Thanks @NormanPCN for introducing Cineform to me. On my own, I had found DNxHD, but this one is a lot better.

    @Triem23, I have a Windows 10 laptop with i5 processor, 8GB RAM, 1 TB hard-disk and NVIDIA GeForce 940M graphics card. As I mentioned, the problem with Hitfilm was completely my fault, and once I updated, everything is smooth. Also, I am encoding the original phone files to Cineform, not encoding to DNxHD and then to Cineform.

    @iNate, I did not take a look at the GrassValley codec because I am pretty happy with Cineform, but thanks for suggesting. I will take a look. And regarding other editing codecs, what I found was that DNxHD is a constant-bitrate codec, meaning that it uses the same number of bits for every scene, which might lead to wastage of space for scenes which require less bits and loss of quality for scenes which require more. Cineform is a variable-bitrate, "constant-quality" codec, so it uses as many bits as required for every scene. ProRes is also a variable-bitrate codec with a maximum limit on the number of bits used per scene.

    So, Cineform gives the best quality/size ratio. And if I ever feel that Hitfilm is not able to handle very big files, I will split them.

    @Triem23, do you still need the output from MediaInfo? Also, iNate raised a valid point that iphone video is 8-bit. Does encoding in 10-bit make sense (I have encoded in 10-bit following NormanPC's advice)?

     

  • edited July 2018

    @Memokraft Cineform 422 is always 10-bit. You have no choice. Don't worry about it. Any option in the VirtualDub dialog is about the internal processing bit depth. So even if you choose 8-bit in the option dialog the file output is still 10-bit so just go/stay with 10-bit internal in the Cineform option dialog.

    Glad to hear your edit is butter smooth. It should be with Cineform.

    ------------------

    About comments that 10-bit is excessive. I had a comment on that in my previous post but deleted it to try and find the basis for my comment. A forum thread from years ago. A few iterations of my Google search keywords and I found it in the first few search results. Gotta love Google.

    David Newmann

    "We disabled the 8-bit encoding option some time ago for good reasons. Even though Vegas is an 8-bit application, its use of video systems RGB benefits for increases encoding precision. 8-bit RGB is approximately equivalent to 9-bit YUV, and most compressors like CineForm use YUV for internal data storage (it is more effecient.) So converting 8-bit RGB to 10-bit YUV and compressing that guarantees a very accurate construction back to RGB when needed."

    Hitfilm is also RGB internal AFAIK.

    So there can be a good reason for a YUV encoding to have more than 8-bits when going to/from RGB. 

    Here is the actual thread if you want more.

    http://dvinfo.net/forum/cineform-software-showcase/99286-more-cineform-questions-regarding-8-bit-vs-10-bit.html

  • edited September 8

    Most people are likely going from 8 to 10 bits and then back to 8.

    You gain nothing. That's snake oil. 

    If you were working with 10-Bit RAW or image sequences then yes, going to a 10 Bit Codec would help to retain source media dynamic range, but going to 10 bit from 8 bit won't do anything for that. You can't improve media by using a 10-bit intermediate. The Codec cannot magically add information to the footage. Those extra 2 bits are just useless padding. 

    There's no point in wasting the space. 

    HQX performs well, while supporting any aspect ratio. 

    Cineform is easier to use given it's built-in, though. On macOS, just use ProRes. 

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