Triem 23's "Hey, I'm Working on THIS!" page (Update: 1963 TARDIS in California, July 18, 2020)



  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @DrFnord On the inside you don't use UVs. You use UVWXYZs because of the higher dimensions.

    @tddavis Wood 7 off

    @spydurhank Thanks. Now, below, is a test after doing the beveling steps and building the correct lamp for the top. Still have to build the door lock. But, after that, I think this one is done...? Oh, right, also I have to put in the green planes for the inside for people who want to open the doors and comp in a background.

  • Oh Yeah, that's awesome!!! :)

  • @Triem23 ;Oh, right, also I have to put in the green planes for the inside for people who want to open the doors and comp in a background.

    Me, me, oh, me!!

    ANd than ks for that link.  That is one I have never run across and bookmarked that into my texture sites folder.

  • edited June 10

    @Triem23 ; I should have realized that.

    The newer shot looks even more fantastic!

    @tddavis thanks; I may have a shot at a stand up career yet.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @DrFnord it took a long time to come up with a proper answer to your joke. 😉 That was a great snd subtle line. Thanks! 

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    Still a few more tweaks needed, but here's a nice, slow beauty shot.
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    Another week another beauty render.
    Just a couple last material things to tweak, re-tool the door lock so the wood doesn't show behind it, and add the chroma green panels inside so if the doors open one can comp in an interior. Otherwise, I think she's done, and on to the next.
  •  The glass is killer, you need to render this into a real location. Lovely job.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @Andy001z thanks! 

    @FilmSensei also pointed out the glass. I need to shuffle around the panel UVs a bit so the windows aren't all identical, but that won't take long.

    There's an odd thing happening on varied Blender-to-Hitfilm exports where either the Police Box or Pull to Open sign isn't reacting correctly to lights (for this render the Police Box sign has Diffuse Reflection at 100%, everything else is at 25%. Switch the glass UVs, figure out the sign issue, add the chroma green interior and it's done. 

  • The glass is BEAUTIFUL!!! :)

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    So many piddly little things to adjust... Not shown in this video, the Chroma Green background inside for comping a control room. Took me a week to build a version that didn't have ambient occlusion issues.

  • That looks good. I love me some Foundry tracker. :)

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @spydurhank yeah it does a good job. Especially if you feed it correct camera data like the focal length and sensor size of one's phone camera. 

    Actually my favorite part of the render is a piddly thing I don't think will be consciously noticed - the TARDIS reflection in that bay window. Super easy to do, too - just a medium gray plane letting Hitfilm's reflections do the work in a soft light blending mode.

    Also helps that I took a spherical panorama from where I knew the TARDIS's windows would be. 

  • Aha, that is cool dude, very nice job. Oh and I like your light wrap thingy. Pretty good mix with your phone footage, I dig it a lot. The colors, wow. :)

  • Sir I love it, but your box is looking a bit in the dark blue side.

  • Stargazer54Stargazer54 Moderator

    Very nice indeed!

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited July 18

    @Andy001z yup. The 1963 TARDIS is pretty dark. See the far left of the image below. At least the next two will go quickly - for the 2'nd Doctor's TARDIS I need to rebuild the (shorter) roof, rebuild the lamp (not visible in this render, but the lamp is the original which only featured in the first three stories), add the door handle, and recolor the wood for 1966. For the 3'rd Doctor's TARDIS, I'll just have to do the 1970 wood color and "Police Box/Pull to Open" signs.,h_576,q_75,strp/tardis_exteriors_1963_2018_by_tannerthecat1996_dcj3g6h-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjphcHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3siaGVpZ2h0IjoiPD01NzYiLCJwYXRoIjoiXC9mXC8wODdiZjU0Zi1iMDJhLTQ1MjEtYjU0Ni1kODFkZGI1ZjY1YjBcL2RjajNnNmgtYTVjMDg3ZWItMDAxYy00ZTk2LTgxNjMtYTQ5OTExMGU0OWIzLmpwZyIsIndpZHRoIjoiPD0xMDI0In1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.Kt_awqh7HLhDahI2xykPqWFUbHJ8AWzrw-upVXZA-BU

    For the 4th Doctor I have to rebuild from scratch. 

    Another small detail - I knocked back the normal maps on the wood by about 75%. The 2'nd Doctor's will have the normals knocked back 50%, the 3'rd Doctor's 25%... So when those three are rendered together they'll get more weathered and beaten like the prop did. 

    @Stargazer54 thanks! Ugh it's just been a month of figuring out why I was getting triangle artifacts... Turns out some splitting of faces I'd done to try to prevent visible tris were causing them also had a drive crash during an archive backup that wiped out two weeks of iterations and I had to revert. Annoyingly every hard drive crash or corruption in my life has happened during a backup! 


  • Welcome @triem23 to mastermind, your specialist subject is on the shades of blue on the TARDIS.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @Andy001z I stood on the shoulders of much more dedicated than I... Plenty of information collated already. In some cases actual blueprint specs are available.

    Ok this prior render shows the lamp - this was June 17, so I've spent a month on just refining materials and fixing things like normals and orphan data.

    Anyways, this is the only image I found for it.

  • So Mike, 

    Are you still triangulating? ;)

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @spydurhank for the Hitfilm export, yes. Using your button. 😉

    No, the initial issue was how bevel and mark Seam Sharp interact. I thought seam sharp was a software flag, not something that modifies geometry. Basically I learned you don't combine those operators. 

    @Stargazer54 oddly it's the data crash that fixed it. Blender projects from June 16 to July 6 got corrupted. But, detailed iterative naming (tardis 1963 - current step dot project) showed me that marking sharp and UVs were the steps between last version and beveling. Eliminated the seam sharp, problem went away. But, without the crash I doubt I would have gone that far back. 

  • Stargazer54Stargazer54 Moderator

    @Triem23 Proof positive that saving iterations of you work can save the day.  All I can do is face palm every time I read an OP's frustrations about hours/days of work down the drain because they kept saving over the same file.

    BTW, sure looks like you did your homework on the differences in the police box from season to season!  I was about to mention in my previous comment that the structure looked too dark, but seeing your research, I now understand why.

  • edited July 18

    @Triem23 Very nice shot in the comp!  And seeing all the Tardii (not sure of the plural going with Radius :)) lined up like that is a cool shot as well.

  • Oh Mike, you poor, poor innocent thing you. Why is you still triangulatin' bruh?

    I watched the Tardis build tutorial that you emailed me. My god Mike, oh my god! Why would you pick that video?

    No not that one dude!!! Nooooooooooo! Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! Oh god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy! The Oscar goes to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! :)

    No uh, the modeling method in the video is what is giving you all of the shading errors and triangulating your mesh before export makes things even worse by the time you get to Hitfilm.

    My god you're headed down a shading error rabbit hole with no end. I want to help you but I don't speak your language. What do I do? Leave you to face the things that you're about to "Tri" and face? Triangulation bruh... get it? heh :)

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator


    That TARDIS tutorial should be treated as a rough guide to approach, not something I followed. For example, I have no idea how that guy built his windows, window frames or panes. His way of building his lamp was... Even I could tell it was stupid. I took it as one approach to modelling and ran with it. When I get to the 4th Doctor's Tardis, I have the blueprints for that, so it'll be a lot more like "Engineering modelling" where I place my points with mathematical precision then  create the faces.

    Triangulating... Remember, I'm building this TARDIS for HITFILM, and Hitfilm is going to triangulate the mesh on import whether I want it to or not. Take the standard default blender cube. Export it as an OBJ, 3DS, FBX. Bring it into Hitfilm. You'll see in the media panel that it has 12 faces, not 6. Slap a wireframe effect on it and you'll see it's been triangulated. Yes, I've run experiements in triangulation, because the mesh is getting triangulated, period. Of course I check to see if I get better results from my triangulating things or letting Blender triangulate things vs letting Hitfilm triangulate things! In general I totally bow to your superior knowledge and practical experience in Blender, but, on the topic of triangulation, the bottom line is, if I'm building the model specifically for Hitfilm, and it's going to get triangulated at some point, there's nothing wrong with trying to make certain the mesh triangulates cleaning.

    If I were making assets for video games... Guess what?! OPEN GL TRIANGULATES. Learning to deal with tris is a smart move, even if I'd rather not, because the OpenGl based Hitfilm is gonna triangulate for me if I don't, so learning modeling practices that avoid issues is the long-term smart way to go.

    Oh, I picked that video cuz it was the only TARDIS build video I saw for Blender 2.8. I don't want to find a tutorial for, say, 2.6, because half the tutorial would be me figuring out the differences in interfaces.

    Hack, even 2.8 tutorials are semi problematic since 2.9 (of course, Filmer is based on 2.9-Alpha) changed and removed a bunch of stuff in Blender 2.8. I was wondering why the mouse wheel wasn't creating more loop cuts? It's because that was removed after 2.83 since a lot of users wanted the mouse wheel to zoom while placing loop cuts. Well and good, but it sure drove my n00b self crazy for a week!

    Of course, to my annoyance I've just realized the crash/revert discussed a couple posts above means I've got some UV maps that are now off. Sigh. One more revert to the pre-bevel verson to fix the UVs, then the final bevel pass. That should really be everything.

    I need to get the Hartnell Tardis correct since the Troughton and Pertwee TARDISes are mostly retextures.

  • Mike, You're making me very happy right now. You sure know how to sweet talk a guy and make me feel like artistically... I'm on another level. Thank you for that. :)

    Hey except for that triangle business, what's up with that dude? You're a little crazy with that thinking. How can I be dead on about everything else except for a quad that is sliced diagonally like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? Honest question... do you just want me to be wrong about one thing? If you really want to know something that I've been wrong about... it's people. I never got people and they never got me. Lets change that... yes I think I would very much like to understand people. :)

    Know that I blame myself for the lack of Filmer export documentation so there are a ton of things that you're not aware of. Sorry dude. Here is a better explanation.

    I've hard coded a full proof triangulation method in the Filmer source code that always works in Hitfilm and which is used by the quads to tris button that you mentioned and also used by my 3D scene exporters so in Filmer the artist never needs to triangulate. Filmer takes care of the boring stuff for me so that I can stay creative. From 2008 till current times I've run into every issue that you could think of and solved it. This is why my exports are simply drag and drop into Hitfilm. I know my stuff man... especially my triangle stuff. :)

    Basically, when u Filmer, u no need tri before export or u cause many problem because tri in code not artist. How's my broken Mexican English? :) 

    The quads to tris button is for adding extra detail to a mesh that will be used in a physics simulation or a mesh deformation like crumpling paper or animated ocean or a waving flag.

    And just so you know... if you were correct about this pre-triangulation before export business, then none of my 3D scene export and compositing techniques would ever work when exporting from Filmer to Hitfilm, simply because of having to change the smoothing angle so there would be no Filmer and we wouldn't be talkin right now. Tris have to export correctly to Hitfilm in order for me to be able to do my export and compositing tricks so I know tris. :)

    I can't show it without permission yet but a Filmer user sent me his Filmer .blend file which is a massively, seriously massively huge 3D scene and very detailed. It has almost 13 million faces and bazillions of seperate 3D objects of all kinds of sizes. it's a huge music hall with lights and music instruments and awesomely cool orchestra stuff, there is even a very detailed guitar amp up close to the animated camera. This scene is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo huge dude. Oh my god! Wow. 

    I export that sucker in my copy of Filmer and I obviously don't need to triangulate ever and I know with full confidence that, the export will import correctly into Hitfilm without me having or needing to change the smoothing angle. So if I can export an almost 13 million poly 3D scene out of Filmer that I didn't even have a hand in building myself and have that 3D scene import correctly into Hitfilm, well that says everything to me. It says I'm doing everything right. :)

    You know that this triangulation mumbo jumbo is distracting from your real problem which lies in how you're creating your 3D objects. Are you gonna re-build them from scratch or are you gonna leave them as is with all of the still visible triangles and shading errors? 

    I personally have no problem starting a model over which is what you should do and just call your last batch of models a practice session. If you actually enjoy modeling like I do then you shouldn't have a problem with starting over and you should be glad because now you know what NOT to do and that is mighty powerful knowledge if you can see it. :)

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