Does HF integrate with Vegas Pro Edit?

edited October 2015 in Everything Else

Hi.

I'm presently in a dilemma. I'm on Vegas pro 12 Edit. Do I wait for the release of Vegas pro 14 to upgrade to the Vegas Suite and get HF included, or do I buy HF right now since I don't really use Sound Forge or the other stuff included in Vegas Suite.

If I understand well, if I upgrade from HF Express to HF Pro I get 50$ off right? My question is; Does HF integrate also with Vegas Pro Edit, or just the full Vegas Pro? I don't need DVD Architect so the extra 50$ to upgrade to the full Pro version isn't justified in my case.

I will upgrade to Vegas 13 (if the EDIT version integrates with HF), because 12 doesn't integrate with HF.

Comments

  • edited October 2015

    Or Vegas 14 whenever or if ever it comes out.

  • HitFilm 3 Pro integrates with any version of Vegas Pro 13 so 13 Pro Edit should work but I think, just think mind you, you can go from 12 Pro Edit to 13 Pro Suite for $450.00 which works out to be the same amount you'd pay to go from 12 Pro Edit to 13 Pro Edit and HitFilm 3 Pro. The Vegas Edit upgrade is $200 and HitFilm 3 Pro with the discount is $250.00. If I'm right then I'd just go for 13 Pro Suite and be done with it. Oh wait, come to think of it that's exactly what I did :)

    What really sucks for you on the timing is Sony just ended a 30% off promo a couple of weeks ago. That would've made the Pro Suite upgrade about $315.00. 

  • You're right on all that. The thing is I'm waiting for 14, so that I don't have to pay 2 upgrades, but it might be a month or it might be a year. I've been folowing the SCS promotions and I think that the one you talk about didn't include an upgrade from Edit to Pro Suite. Some other stuff like Movie Studio was 30% off. I might be mistaken though. I guess on the next promotion I'll be pulling my credit card. 

    Thanx for the reply.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    Um... I have been a Vegas user since version 1,and it pains me greatly to say this.... 

    I doubt there's going to be a version 14. Sony has been pushing Catalyst Edit all year at the trade shows. Nothing at all has been said about a Vegas 14, and 13 was released well over a year ago. Given that Vegas has had a 12-18 month release cycle across it's lifespan, by now one would expect to have heard the first rumblings of announcement. 

    Vegas's feature set hasn't really been updated in awhile. It's GPU render code is several years old and optimized for hardware 5 generations old. About the only significant changes in 13 were the iPad app (now touted as a core feature in Catylist) and some Hitfilm effects. 

    Catalyst Edit has been getting Sony's press. Vegas hasn't. Catylist Edit is PC/Mac cross-platform, Vegas isn't. With Acid 7, and Sound Forge, Sony has already shown that they will cheerfully continue to sell software that hasn't had a new version revision since the days of Windows Vista. 

    Now, I have no hard information--this is speculation--but I am pretty certain Vegas is now just kind of languishing into slow death. But, really, I just don't think Sony is going to spend resources on Vegas upgrades when their focus is on shiny, new Catylist. 

    Pisses me off, too, because Vegas really used to be the fastest, most flexible NLE out there. Vegas beat Premiere to Open compliance by 3 years, could take native RED footage six months before Avid, and has been able to mix footage of different resolutions and codecs on a single timeline like FCPX has never-ever been able to. 

     Finally, I leave you with a cut-n-paste of this message off the Creative Cow Forum from last month:

    Re: No vegas 14?
    by Harry Maathuis on Sep 15, 2015 at 10:17:50 am

     

    Sad message! I was at IBC 2015 and spoke there with Gary Rebholz about the future of Vegas Pro. VP will be maintained he said, but there will be no version 14.

    Harry Maathuis
  • @Triem23 I saw that too but also later in the same thread somebody from SCS posted this:

    Re: No vegas 14?
    by John Freeborg on Sep 16, 2015 at 4:08:42 pm

     

    Sony Creative Software remains committed to Vegas Pro, our strong craft video editor, and continues to support the product. For Vegas Pro 13, we’ve released 4 updates so far, the most recent in June (build 453) which addressed some key camera support issues and is compatible with Windows 10.

    As a policy, Sony Creative Software does not comment on future product plans, however we are actively assessing market and customer needs for future major and maintenance versions of Vegas Pro. If you have specific needs, we’d love to hear your detailed product suggestions:

    http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/support/suggestions

    - John (@ the Sony Creative Software Team)
     
    There's two other things to note. One is the Catalyst products are not developed by SCS. They are developed by Sony Media Cloud Services and only marketed by SCS. The second is SCS is advising Catalyst customers that a complete workflow consists of Catalyst Production Suite and Ci cloud services and then on to Vegas Pro or other fine craft NLE of your choice for final finishing. In other words Catalyst Edit was never meant to be a replacement for Vegas Pro and if a replacement is coming it will be something far more capable and much more comparable to what we're used to than Catalyst Edit. 
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited October 2015

    @Aladdin4d The Creative Cow post I quoted above allegedly quotes a conversation with Gary Rebholz, who is the SCS product manager. Assuming the conversation is accurate, that's the guy in charge of Vegas saying, off the record, that Vegas is basically dead.

    Side note--there's another Creative Cow post I didn't quote from the same source and of the same conversation with Rebholz where Rebholz allegedly stated that Vegas 13 would continue to be supported for the forseeable future. Of course this mean the occasional small, incremental bug fix update. And that's it. The post YOU quote from John Freeborg really says the same thing "We remain committed to Vegas Pro...we've released 4 updates." Yes--four minor bug fixes and a Windows 10 patch. However, Sony "...does not comment on future product..." which certainly doesn't mean that a Vegas 14 is being planned--only that bug fixes are still happening for 13. This is the exact same thing (allegedly) said by Rebholz--that bug fix updates were still being worked on for 13--with a "no comment" on a 14.

    That said, I'm aware that my post is "This guy said this guy said..." which is why I said I speculate.  Still, given Sony's past release schedule, a Vegas 14 update would normally have been announced at IBC last month... And, of course, Sony still pushes Acid 7 (Released in 2010!) and Sound Forge 10 was released in 2010 with Sound Forge 11 being released in 2014. It's possible Sony is shifting Vegas to a slower development cycle, but that would just be prolonging the inevitable, since, under Sony stewardship, poor old Vegas went from being about the most cutting-edge NLE out there to being woefully behind.

    I really really wanna be wrong--I want a Vegas 14 to come out, and I want Sony to fix the GPU acceleration bugs that have plagued Vegas since v10 (The solution to GPU acceleration problems shouldn't be "turn it off."), and to fix the stability issues (Vegas 10, 11, 12 and 13 all have a recurring crash on exit for me across three different OS's and four different computers--given that, I have to assume it's an issue with the base code) that have plagued all versions of Vegas from 10 on. I want the fastest, most intuitive NLE on the planet to return to it's glory, but I don't think it's going to happen--and it's something I've been convinced of since Sony ported Sound Forge over to Mac, but not Vegas...

    What's really annoying it a death of Vegas leaves me wondering is I should move to the very expensive Avid, the rental-only Premiere (Screw that, I'll stay on my CS6 forever!) or switch platforms to Mac (ugh) and use the bad joke that is FCPX (Hi! I'm FCPX! I don't allow users to mix footage of differing resolutions on a single timeline! This means if you want to post-crop 4K footage for 1080 while mixing with 1080 footage, you have three extra steps in your editing, since you have to commit your post-crops BEFORE you edit to transcode your 4K footage in Compressor before import to your timeline! have fun making editing decisions before you edit! HAHAHAHAHA!) , or stay on PC and the even worse joke that is Catalyst Edit! Well, I don't need 4K, so I could move to the free Resolve, OR, FxHome might do me a favor and put some actual multicam tools in Hitfilm, allowing me to try shifting my editing to my favorite compositor!

  • All I'm saying is even if it is the end of Vegas there will be a comparable replacement as Catalyst Edit was never intended to cover the functionality of Vegas.

    BTW if you are going to jump ship to something else you should take a serious look at Edius

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

     One can hope. 

    Not quite jumping ship yet... I'll stay in Vegas as long as I can, but, yeah, gotta start looking ahead for a probable death of platform. 

  • Don't go into the doom mode :)

    I think that the user base of Vegas (and Movie Studio) is too wide to abandon. 13 is pretty stable, I heard, so maybe a replacement (which is not the Catalyst Edit) is coming. It would be a logical thing to do- focus on new product when the old one is stable. From this point of view, there will be no SV14 indeed.

    Of course, the policy of no info about new products is shared is annoying, but it is seldom the other way around.

    Funny thing about the internet is, that when a company releases new version every year, it is claimed as a rip off. When there is no new release, people demand a new version and/or write about the death of the product :)

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @Marcin, what you say is (almost) all true. With the prime exception being the Vegas user base, which has been steadily decreasing for years (as a non-scientific datum, the number of active users in the So Cal Vegas Users Yahoo Group has decreased from over 6000 members in 2010 to a hair over 2000 now, as well as changing from an open group to a closed private group. Even it's moderator has been actively trying to get someone else to take over the group as he's now moved to Premiere).

    It should be noted that Vegas 13 was released 18 months after Vegas 12 (instead of the 12 month release cycle of Vegas 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12) with Vegas 13 only being released a year ago.

    That said, when a product is successful and stable, at least for productivity software, it's rare indeed for a company to compete with itself. To use Adobe as an example, when Adobe released InDesign, they discontinued Pagemaker. InDesign isn't a re-brand of Pagemaker, it's a new product. Adobe discontinued OnLocation in favor of Prelude and discontinued Fireworks in favor of Muse.

    Of course FxHome killed VideoLab for Hitfilm...

    So, yeah, I'm a bit doom an gloom right now--but if Sony was fired up about Vegas, why would they be launching another editor again? Cross-platform at that? I point out, again, that when Adobe ported Sound Forge to Mac, they didn't port Vegas--and that was right before FCPX launched, which is Sony missing the best chance they ever had to pick up Mac market share. This isn't me just saying "Oh, well, they're late on the next update, they must be killing the product," this is me saying, "Gee, they launched a competing product line, AND we have an (alleged, off the record) statement by the Product Management Manager for Sony Computer Software saying there's no Vegas 14.

    I'd love to be wrong--and if there's a future announcement of a Vegas 14, feel free to give me an "I told you so," to which I'll respond with a high five and a "****, yeah, I was!" For now, I'll continue using Vegas--my preferred editor--for as long as I can. And, if there's no Vegas 14--well, we'll get another couple of years of bug fixes for Vegas 13, and maybe another 4-5 viable years out of it before changing tech makes it obsolete. But, as pointed out with Acid, Sony is still perfectly willing to sell Acid Pro 7, which was released in 2010 and it's last update was released in April 2011 (amusingly enough, while the download file on the SCS servers is tagged as April 2011, and the bottom of the release notes for that version still says April 2011, the date header at the TOP of the document has been changed to July, 2015), which was the patch to add Win 7 compatability. To repeat that in shouty all-caps, SONY STILL SELLS A PRODUCT THAT HASN'T BEEN UPDATED IN 4 YEARS AND IS NOT OFFICIALLY COMPATIBLE WITH WIN 8, 8.1 or 10! So, yeah, they'll sell Vegas pro 13 and Vegas Movie Studio forever, but I don't think we're getting any more new versions.

    I still need to be mentally ready to think about a software switch.

    I just want to avoid Premiere. It should be obvious from the amount of activity I have on this forum how happy I am there's a product like Hitfilm out there replacing my After Effects! (Since I shifted to Hitfilm I've only gone into AE for things that I CAN NOT do in Hitfilm. And that's happened only three times in two years--twice for a quick camera track I couldn't get mocha to solve [and that camera data was exported from AE and imported to Hitfilm] and once when I absolutely needed to do something with AE's Liquify tool that I couldn't duplicate using Hitfilm's other warping filters.)

  • Yes, you could be right, but on the other hand- coding a new app that would have to cover all Vegas funcionality would make more than a year. I think also that there will be no Vegas 14. The question is, is there going to be something, that replace it.

    I'm just doing a family videos right now, so I don't worry, as far as my SMS is working and supports my camera files. It would be a different thing,  if I were doing it for a living.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    I do it for a living. Sigh. And I am four times faster in Vegas than Premiere or FCPX. 

  • That's why I'm still on the fence about upgrading to the suite or buying HF separately. Soundforge still looks (visually) like it was found in an archaeological expedition in Egypt. Besides, I have tons of plug ins that can do everything it can.
    Sounds to me like Sony bought Sonic Foundry just to have some software for their hardware. Reminds me of Mackie with Tracktion. When they bought it, it went south really fast. Then the the original developer bought it back and now it seems to be doing good again.
    I kind of share Triem's feelings about this. I'll be using Vegas until it's rendered obsolete by hardware.
    I've been subscribing to the whole Adobe suite since last January and I've probably used Premiere or AE 20 times max. I don't get along too well wth these. They're slow.
    Resolve is free? I think last time I checked it was 1000$.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited October 2015

    Resolve has a free version. Resolve Light. 

    Kinda like how there's a Hitfilm Express and Pro. 

    :-) 

  • If the editor in HF was actually usable, I'd even consider switching to just HF.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    Hitfilm's editor is it's weakest area right now, but it's greatly improved from 2 to 3, so one can assume future improvements. 

    Personally I don't edit in Hitfilm. I do a lot of long-form multicam, and Hitfilm lacks the tools to expedite that. However, the editor IS fully functional enough to do a full picture cut of a short film. 

    Arguably, the biggest issue is a near-total lack of audio tools. One could assemble a really rough audio cut, but audio editing is basically going to need to go out to otger software. 

  • Not only audio. The whole thing is incredibly clunky. Super slow workflow. Trimmer unusable. No ability to zoom tracks vertically. It's clearly just an afterthought. Would be cool if they made it usable though. 

  • edited October 2015

    I use the HitFilm trimmer all the time, and its smooth and efficient and does exactly what it should do;  can you clarify what you mean when you say its "unusable"? 

    You can adjust the vertical height of tracks through the triangle at the bottom left of the Editor, where you control all the timeline appearance options.

    The Editor can certainly benefit from further development, but if you can be more specific regarding whatever issues you are having, it would be helpful in addressing them.

  • edited November 2015

    Dragging the edges of clips to shorten or lengthen them  is very unresponsive. It takes at least half a second before the clip reacts, then it moves, but it's still very laggy. Same thing with the trimmer and the playhead. 

    Zooming on the timeline with the mouse wheel+Ctrl is all or nothing; you go from all the way zoomed out to way too much zoomed in with a single "indentation" of the mouse wheel. 

    I've tried it on two different machines; a laptop running Win10 and a desktop running Win7, and it's the same on both. Both Vegas Pro and Premiere Pro run smoothly on those machines. I've also tried it with different codescs, frame rates etc. Same results. And I also tried it today on the HF4 demo. Same problem.

    And I can't find that triangle on the bottom left of the editor. All I have are the Snap toggle, and to its right, the horizontal zooming. Maybe it disappeared from my copy. See screenshot below.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx74mdQKT3-dWE1FRk8tZEIyMWs

  • @Ireground there is a menu under the track list, next to the timeline zoom slider. The icon is an arrow pointing to the right. There are 3 icons next to each other  and it's the one in the middle. You can have a look here to see what it looks like: http://hitfilm.com/reference-manuals/hitfilm-4-pro#timeline_panels.htm

    By the way, we can't access your image on Google drive.

  • I see it. Really not intuitive though.

    Thanks for the reply.

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